I received an email concerning a suicide that had happened with questions concerning why Christians or those going for the highest in God are sometimes taken out by this act. I am not getting into the theological issues surrounding whether or not Christians who commit suicide go the heaven or hell. That is God's call not mine. I just felt to plant some seeds in the hearts and minds of God's people to help them understand the pressures and possible ways to pray concerning suicide in the Body of Christ.
"I appreciate the article and the question. I know for those in the church, the problem is a lack of transparency by the ministry and a level of practical teaching to help deal with it. The ministry is not willing to be transparent about their struggles and consequently how they gained victory over those struggles.
Another factor, in my opinion, is we do not read the scriptures emotionally therefore have those in scripture on pedestals of not having the struggles we have today and therefore do not see the answers that God provided.
Paramount, in my experience is the struggle Elijah had after the great victory at Mt. Carmel. When God unpacked that for me, I never looked at depression the same way, nor did I handle it the same way, nor did it handle the depressed the same way. This is why I give so much room for the experience.
In Isa 61, the spirit of heaviness is the "spirit of depression". In this there are levels. Elijah is not fighting emotional depression alone. He is not fighting an oppression by the "spirit of depression", he seems to be possessed by that spirit. It holds sway over him for over 40 days and visitations of God do not get him out of it.
If that spirit is attacking a person or trying to possess a person, there is a strong call of God on their life, that he is trying to distract the person from entering into. In the life of Elijah, it was the training of Elisha and imparting into his life that the enemy was trying to stop. The enemy may not have known who, or why or when, but he knew that if Elijah poured himself into someone, that someone would have a greater ministry that Elijah and do damage to his kingdom as Elisha did by releasing in timing, the killing of Jezebel and the anointing of two men of God's choosing over two nations.
If God is raising up today, and Elijah ministry, then that Elijah ministry is going to go through the principles of the dealings of God and the making of the man that Elijah did. We cannot receive the Elijah anointing without the Elijah dealings. One of those dealings is walking through an attack and possibly even being possessed by the spirit of depression and despair that could lead to suicide and having God keep us through it and deliver us out the other side. There must be a people who overcome this spirit whose sole desire is to bring death and devastation to the Elijah company of God.
Another factor to remember is that Elijah was being prepared to stand by the Lord of the whole earth. This is seen in Zechariah and Revelation 11. If the enemy can take out those destined for this company, then, in his eyes, heaven is weakened and the enemies kingdom is strengthened. Because people are not taught, they are "destroyed for lack of knowledge".
These are just a few of the thoughts that passed through my head when I read the article in this announcement and the questions you asked. I am sure there is more, but, I leave the rest to you to meditate upon."
Dr. Bill
Over the years, I have watched and listened as men and women have preached about the church expression needed for the End Time.
Many of those who have endeavored to go beyond traditional "Pentecostal" doctrine are teaching that we need to return to the New Testament mode. This would include the apostolic(their understanding) ministry with the accompaniment of the other four. Although that sounds good, and would definitely give better expression that is evident now. It is not God's heart.
Under the Book of Acts expression there was clear evidence of leaven and conflict in the Body. It is clear from Ephesians 4 that the true expression of the ministry will bring us to both maturity and unity. Since neither were evident in the book of Acts nor the rest of the scripture that record any history of the time.
My conclusion concerning that is that God, in restoring His church has yet to reveal the aspect of Himself that will bring the Body of Christ into full maturity in relationship to the head. This begs the question: "What will be the expression of His Body in the End Time?" Is there a model that we have to go by, or, where do we look for help in understanding God's plan for the end time?
Eph 4:10-15 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: KJV
As I studied the scripture and history I had to come to a conclusion concerning the above passage. Either Paul was not inspired, or, he was speaking prophetically. What he prophesied about has never been seen in the history of the church.
This suggests that we have never seen fully matured apostolic ministry yet. Although there may have been one or two who came to full maturity, like Peter and Paul, as a corporate expression we have not seen the maturity essential to the fulfillment of Eph. 4:12-17.
It is quite possibly the "new thing" that Isaiah speaks about.
Isa 43:18 Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. 19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. KJV
Although many have applied this to the literal and natural Israel, and it does apply, it also applies to spiritual Israel.
Questions arise:
- If we draw the parallels, the full application has not yet happened to Israel. Has it happened to spiritual Israel?
- Is it possible that, just as Joel was only partially fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost, this means the passage also relates to the End Time expression of the Body of Christ?
This blog is only to raise questions, not yet answer them.
Many years ago, I wrote 2 courses on "Spiritual Parallels to The Natural Body". At that time three books came into my possession by Dr. Paul Brand. He was a leper surgeon in India for 18 years. His ability to draw spiritual parallels from his work still remains a classic foundatio0n for understanding the work of God in the Corporate Body of Christ. Although he was an Anglican/Episcopalian his insight was beyond what many Charismatics, Pentecostals and 'End Time Saints comprehend even today..
It is because we do not understand some of the basic principles of those three books that we remain stuck in our current spiritual ruts.
It seems that historically the Church has moved forward by a sovereign move of God starting a fire on their altar of sacrifice, then, because they felt they were beyond anything known at the time, the fire died out. Under the Old Covenant, the priest were required, after God lit the fire by sending flame out from the Holiest of All in the Tabernacle, to keep alive the flame. The fire had to be tended by adding wood to it to keep it continually burning.
God's heart today is that we continue to move into all that He has for His Church. That means the current emphasis of God is the Corporate Body of Christ. God is getting ready to bring forth a people who will move and flow fluidly in all that He has purchased for them on the cross. It will be a concert of the Holy Spirit with no man or women taking the spotlight or the glory for what happens. God has endeavored to do this in each move, but the vessels used were not willing to give up their prominence in order that Jesus would be seen.
. In coming back to our question, we find many of God's people in situations that produce questions in our minds. The major question being "Why Lord?" This is a cry from their soul and often their spirit as new levels of pain are experienced exposing areas that have never been healed or dealt with. It also exposes lacks in a church that has tried to present itself as having answers.
My heart is in grief right now in the natural for the lose of my youngest daughter. A month ago she slipped into eternity after a brief illness. Yet the pain I feel is not something that can be medicated. It is a pain of the soul, heart, and emotions. It has exposed to me areas that I do not have answers for. This can make me either ignore and blame, or, seek God to be able to reach out and help others, after I have identified the source of the pain and what will heal it.
The deeper we go into the revelation of God's fearfully and wonderfully made creation, the less we understand about the whole human condition. It becomes more and more evident that we must depend on the Maker and His manual to grasp what He is doing in restoring us to His likeness and image.
Pain in the body is a warning sign. It is actually a blessing and a gift. This is the axiom that Dr. Brand in his book "The Gift of Pain" orginally titled, 'Pain, The Gift Nobody Wants'.
As I have been going through the grief process with the lose of my daughter, I have recognized that one of the greatest sources of pain was not having answers for her when she asked questions that might have helped her handle the stress that built to a loaded heart that eventually broke under the stress and resulted in the heart attack the results of which eventually took her life. The pain of a dad who did not have the answers for his baby girl. I could blame God, blame others for not responding quick enough, but, blame will not heal any of that pain, only delay dealing with it.
Then there is the pain of having a very close spiritual daughter ripped out of my life with her children. The question that remains unanswered at this point in time is, God Why?
In all of this I have come to one conclusion, though I do not understand why: God's Word is always right. My lack of understanding how He has applied the principles of it is part of the problem I wrestle with. He is ever increasing my knowledge and understanding of His ways as I take the stand that He is in control and knows best, even when I do not understand.
The pain I feel in my emotions right now is an indication of an area that He wants to correct in my heart. Remember we have come in the Body to a time when God is not just dealing with sin, but the weights as well. A weight is something that is good, but will slow me down in the race I am called to run. Just as a runner in a race does not wear a suit and tie, it would be an unnecessary weight for him or her, so there are good things in each individual's life that are weight that slow him/her down from being able to give it their best. These things God wants to remove.
Sometimes the only thing that will manifest what that is, is pain in the area of the weight. That pain can be emotional, mental, in my will, or in my spirit. Because it is so foreign to most of us, pain in the spirit is the most agonizing. Often that is because we do not recognize it is spiritual pain and think it is soulish or emotional in some way. It may manifest through those vehicles of our soul, but it is spiritual.
There is much for us to learn and along the way I will write more, but it is enough for now to realize that it is possible and ask God to give us the discernment to recognize it and bring it back to Him for revelation and healing.
In closing there should be a fresh understanding of 1 Cor. 14
1 Corinthians 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
There are spiritual parallels to all of the things the natural body goes through.
(Books to read by Dr. Paul Brand: "Fearfully and Wonderfully Made", "In His Image"-Authored with Philip Yancy, "The Gift of Pain" authored by Dr. Brand.)[Dr Hurst courses are available through www.drwmjhurst.com ]
It has been about 6 weeks since my last blog. Time really has been flying.
There are a number of things I have been pondering, as the Lord has been speaking to me over the time. Some of them I have not had time to dig into.
One of the things that has troubled me for a number of years is the concept that is out there of "how to do church". Even the most recent of the "moves of God" has settled into a type of Pentecostal/Charismatic/End-time liturgy.
In researching this the Lord lead me back to the Quakers of the 17th century. One of the perspectives that He caused me to see Church History from is that of what He was restoring to His Church in each move. When I talked to Him about it, I heard Him say that the Quaker movement was Him restoring the functioning of the Body back to each member.
With each move there has been a restoration of something fresh and new, that would be a component of the final mature Body of Christ. One of the problems in history has always been that we, as the Church, have slipped into the human thinking that what God revealed to our movement, was the final revelation and so we have settled down to propagate the "new thing" that we feel is the final revelation.
Here is an axiom that I believe will keep us from that:
If the Holy Spirit is still dealing in our midst, then we have not come to the fullness of what God wants for our group or fellowship!!
With the Quakers they would come together and wait on the Lord in silence until the Spirit moved someone to speak, sing, or do some action motivated by Him. One of the things we were not told in our history classes, not even our Church History classes was that the Presence of the Lord was the center of that focus. It was not silence or waiting alone. The silence was so that men and women would quiet themselves from the business of the week and focus on the Presence of Jesus. This would cause the Lord to come. After all, in Isaiah He said, they that wait for me shall never be ashamed. Their waiting for Him cause Him to come and manifest in their midst. To the outside people they could only see the reaction of the flesh to the manifest Presence of Jesus, the quaking under the awesome power. Hence they became known as the Quakers.
In reading some of their own historical account I was struck by the statements that chronicled what happened as they waited. They said that as they waited, and some responded in obedience to the Holy Spirit's prompting to share, whether in word or song or some other way, the Presence of Jesus deepened in their midst.
One of the things the Quaker movement restored was the Manifest Presence of Jesus. One of the articles I read, by a Quaker historian of the time said that after 50 years, the Presence began to dissipate, as people began to focus on things other than the coming of His Presence.
The Church today would do well to at least incorporate some time for "waiting on God". This is not just being silent, but an expectant waiting focused on Jesus that expects Him to come by His Holy Spirit and walk once more among His Church.
In Revelation, we find Him walking among the lampstands. I would like to suggest to you that this is His Manifest Presence walking among us. He desires to do this. As He does this He examines the strength of our light. In response to this, He reveals to us what we have done right, and what needs improvement. This is not done in a judgmental way, as has often been presented to us, but in a loving way, calling us back to the centering on His Presence and His Person. He also gives to us, the message of love that will enable us to make it to our destiny both as an individual and a corporate Body of people.
Lord help us to focus in on His Presence and wait until He comes. One more scripture from Hebrews. Unto those that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Heb. 9:28 I would like to suggest that it was this that God was calling the Quakers attention to in those days. This appearing is that of His Presence and it will do a work within, if allowed, that will cleanse the heart of men and women. It will also produce, in a corporate people, the same effect. John said that when we shall see Him we shall be like Him jfor we see Him as He is. Waiting in His presence, consistently, will bring for a people who will see Him in everything. Although this was the Quaker philosophy, even the waiting became a liturgy, and a form, hence, the diminishing of the Presence by the time 50 years had passed. OH LORD, TEACH US TO WAIT ON YOU.
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Tying in with the above, I find that God has also been speaking to me concerning the greatness of His ability. This goes beyond the performance of signs, wonders, and miracles. It is His ability to move through and speak through all the forms of worship, liturgies, and modes of worship used today. He is getting ready to speak to all His Church, in whatever form they "worship" in.
I have been exercised as He has dealt with me that He needs men and women who can flow into every type of expression of worship to Him that there is and speak into it "the Word of the Lord", in terms that the particular expression of the Body of Christ can receive. This is a challenging Word, to one who has come through so many of the expressions looking for Him.
The challenge can be illustrated from the natural body like this. The blood which has the 5 white corpuscles in it,(analogous to the 5 ministry gifts) flows through every structure in the natural body. These 5 white corpuscles carry the protective antibodies that fight infection to the farthest reaches of the body. They do not change the nature of how that organ or cell functions, they only keep them pure so they can function.
The 5 ministry gifts in the Body of Christ should do the same job spiritually. There needs to come a revelation to those men and women in whom God has invested these expressions of grace(the 5 ministry gifts) that God has not called us to change the Body member through which we are flowing, be it an individual we are ministering to, or a corporate local assembly. He has called us to minister to them in such a way that after we are gone, they more clearly and cleanly relate to the Head and are able to receive feeding, and instruction to function with less interference. We, as the ministry, carry away with us, anything that may have inhibited their flow and function before we got there.
OH LORD, HELP ME FUNCTION IN SUCH A WAY, THAT AFTER I HAVE BEEN TO A LOCAL CORPORATE GATHERING, THEY KNOW MORE CLEARLY THEIR FUNCTION AND PLACE AND SOME OF THAT WHICH HAS HINDERED THEM IN FLOWING AND FUNCTIONING, I CARRY AWAY WITH ME.
Could this be part of that which Paul saw when he talked of making up that which was lacking of the sufferings of Christ? After he had ministered to a Church, did he carry away with him, some of that which had been inhibiting their walk and relationship, as a corporate assembly?
Selah!!
In these days it is important that we become a prepared people. In my study of the Book of the Revelation of Jesus, I have notice some things we have not seen. So many people have majored on the negative. I have seen much positive in the book concerning God's people and His protection of them and His mission for them during the time of trouble.
To me, it is clear that it is the purpose to bring down the kingdoms of this world. In order to do that, He wants to prepare a people who will be able to be good stewards of His power and Kingdom. The trials of life and our stewardship of their impact on our lives, whether we take the preciousness out of them, qualify us for the stewardship in the next age.
In every trial, no matter how difficult it seems, there is positive to be gained. If we go through the trial and gain the positive/precious, it is our treasure to either keep or invest in the Body of Christ. I wish I had time to expand on this but a blog is too short to do that.
God wants us to obtain that treasure in our spirit, soul and natural man.
Question to consider.
What are you looking for as you go through the trial? Can you find the positive/treasure?
Dr. Bill
